In just over two years, Phillips in Association with Bacs & Russo has achieved impressive results. How do you explain this swift success?
First of all, there’s a market. But even though it exists, the vital thing is to understand it. Take the example of cell phones. 20 years ago, it was all about Nokia and Motorola. Today these two brands are unknown to the younger generation, which swears only by Apple and Samsung. Why did that happen? Because at one point Nokia and Motorola no longer understood the market and are now paying the price.
I think that here at Phillips we are closely attuned to the market. We have been attentive to collectors’ frustrations and are striving to alleviate them. What do I mean by that? Burdensome administration, people who can never be contacted, specialists who consider their work as just that rather than as a passion, etc. We never abandon our clients and remain right there with them from start to finish. They sense that we share their passion.
At Phillips, you favour quality over quantity.
Definitely. As I mentioned before, we have grasped what collectors expect from an auction house. The first demand is for quality, which must be absolutely impeccable. And since Phillips’ launched into this realm in 2014, we have deliberately focused on pieces of superior quality in terms of their condition, originality and provenance. We invest a great deal of time in each piece, as well as in the presentation catalogue for each sale, and we provide a customer service worthy of the watches we offer.
The two latest auctions in Geneva (editor’s note: on May 14th and 15th 2016) featured 225 lots compared with 350 to 500 lots for the other auction houses. We sold 100% of the watches in the “Epic Stainless Steel Chronographs” sale; and 99% of the second sale, bringing in a total of 32,843,250 Swiss francs. This result is not because we work a third less than our counterparts and charge three times more. On the contrary, we work three times harder for half as many lots.
During the recent sales in Geneva, some Patek Philippe and Rolex watches went under the hammer at incredible prices. Do you think that certain brands are undervalued?
Absolutely. Anyone who knows me is aware that I’m not ‘married’ to either Patek Philippe or Rolex. I love Haute Horlogerie, beautiful watchmaking, vintage watches. The fact that we organised this theme auction on steel chronograph watches is concrete proof that we did not want to hold a stage exclusively devoted to Patek Philippe for example, but that we instead cultivate horological diversity. One need only cast a glance at the brands involved in the May 15th auction: Jaeger-LeCoultre, Eterna, Ulysse Nardin, Movado, Longines, Zenith, Omega, Universal, Breguet, Patek Philippe, Heuer, Eberhard & Co., Tudor, etc. A fine range of well-known and lesser known names. I don’t care whether a watch by such or such a brand is currently being sold at cut price in an airport boutique. Back in the day, this brand produced wonderful watches and that’s what interests me. By way of example, Eterna made some truly spectacular chronographs in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s, and we saw two Eterna models achieve some very good scores. During that period, movement blanks were shared between various companies. Don’t imagine that Vacheron Constantin or Audemars Piguet had a chronograph movement blank at the time. They worked with calibres by Lemania, Valjoux, etc. The Rolex Reference 4113 which sold for CHF 2.4 million has the same movement blank as the Universal Genève that went for a tenth of that sum. Naturally, a Rolex is worth a great deal, coming from one of the world’s most powerful names. And likewise, I also think that a Patek Philippe sold for CHF 500,000 Swiss francs has not yet reached its peak value.
Picking up on the latter issue, do you think that prices have reached a ceiling?
One always realises with hindsight where the ceiling was, but I think we are far from having reached ceiling-level prices. By way of comparison, a few weeks ago, a painting by Jean-Michel Basquiat sold for 60 million dollars in New York. The most expensive Rolex ever sold at auction went for CHF 2.5 million, a mere twentieth of the other figure. Let’s try to understand rationally why the Basquiat painting is worth 20 times more than the Rolex. It’s not because of the actual material – a canvas and oil – that the painter used. So is it a matter of rarity? Both the Rolex and the painting are rare pieces. Could it be age? The Rolex dates from 1942 and the Basquiat from the 1980s. So that’s not what it’s all about. Taking another more mechanical example, some vintage Ferraris fetch between 25 and 30 million dollars. Where’s the logic in that? If one is talking speculation, ceiling prices and I’m not comparing watches with cars or paintings, I am entirely comfortable with the prices we have reached at the Geneva sales.
Could you define the profile of tomorrow’s collector?
We are currently living in a society that is ever more perfect and controlled. For example, when I was younger, I experienced skiing in a pullover and without a protective helmet or goggles. Was it better? No, but there was a sense of freedom. And I think that amid this daily perfection, young people are looking for imperfection. You can go and buy a new shirt in a boutique or you can visit a shop offering vintage fashion, because it has a soul. I see a major rebirth of interest in vintage objects, watches, films and music… The future is the future, but we tend to look to the past with a hint of nostalgic regret. I believe future collectors are currently in their thirties, rather than among today’s 15 year-olds who have not experienced anything else. But a 30-something individual has had some contact with a previous era. Vintage is not only a means of telling your story but also of standing out from the crowd and asserting your personality.
I also think that future collectors do not necessarily need to be millionaires in order to treat themselves to a watch. The quality of a model is not expressed by its price. I prefer a restaurant offering me the best pasta with tomato sauce to an establishment serving an overcooked or over-salted wagyu beef fillet. Witness the steel chronograph thematic sale, which included a Heuer at CHF 2000, a high-quality watch that was in mint condition, extremely rare and had never been tampered with.
